Shawn, thank you for the "heads up" on Margaret Wheatly. I first encountered her writings in Leadership and the New Science. I will try to catch interview via the Web site.

Also the Jefferson interview sounds valuable as well. He is in some ways my least favorite of our founding fathers and yet the US would not be what it is without him. Have seen the little book that Hitchens wrote on Jefferson?

Anecdote always proves a worthwhile visit for hist learner, thanks for sharing!

Hi Michael, I don't know too much about Jefferson so I have ordered some biographies from Amazon. So why is Jefferson one of your least favourite founding fathers? I should know more about this history as I born in South Carolina but have lived in Australia nearly all my life.

Shawn, Jefferson was a great man, his ideas have shaped the US and I am thankful for his contribution. But from what I have read he a pretty nasty politician behind the scenes using proxies to attack his enemies in print and in congressional debate.

After making my comment I listended to the Thom Hartmann interview and was a bit surprised on a couple of accounts. One, that he dismissed Ellis so easily (he won the Pulitzer Prize for history in 2001 for Founding Brothers). And two, that the interviewer was so easy on him. But to be fair I have not heard Radio National, so I don't have much of a context for the objectives of the program.

I did like the interview though; it was helpful. Hartmann's perspective on Jefferson and his application to today's issues here in the US is the kind of pubic dialogue that we need more of here in the US.

And I should know more about Australia - I have a copy of Huges "The Fatal Shore" but have not read it - do you know the book? I thought that might be a good starting place. But are there other titles you would recommend?

Thanks for the info Shawn, I have enjoyed Meg's books and writing for a number of years, so it was a surprise when listening to denote quite a negative/ pessimistic tone to a large portion of the interview, so even though she had good things to say. Luckily she finished with a positive 'anecdote' about the power of saying 'yes' to a challenge, so overall I was glad I listened.

Hi Michael, thanks for the expansion on Thomas Jefferson. Your comments have picqued my interest further so I look forward to reading the biographies I have on order.

I've heard of the Fatal Shores but also haven't read it yet. You really got my thinking about what I could recommend to you but where to start? I remembered an excellent Australia Day speech by Peter Garrett (once the lead singer of Midnight Oil, then leader of the Australian Conservation Foundation and now a member of Parliament)where he desribed how he might introduce a vistor to Australia. Here is a snippet (you can read to whole speech at http://www.australiaday.com.au/australia_day_address.html - just click on his name)

"I'd take them to a few pubs to hear Australian music and meet people, people from all walks of life. We'd go to a bush dance and hear songs sung from the heart about billies and swag men and monstrous cities that swallow you whole. I would fling our vibrant culture at them. I'd lend them books by Carey, Jolley, Facey and Winton and tell these visitors we've got some of the best filmmakers and poets in the whole damn world.

We'd go and see plays, dance, we'd go to the cricket, We'd go to a surf lifesaving carnival. I'd take some pleasure in pointing out that the lifesavers on the beach did just that, saved lives, and that usually no one paid them to do it. "Now that's Australian", I'd say.

I'd play them some of my favourite CD's; Hunters and Collectors, the Mavis's, Bernie Gannon, Vince Jones, Kev Carmody, Coolangubra, Crowded House and a host of others. And then we'd go to a milk bar with frosted glass surrounds, if we could find one, and have a burger with real beetroot or sample any one of many different and delicious foods, prepared by scores of different nationalities who've made this country their home.

We'd drive up the coast and explore on the cheap, staying at caravan parks, dining at barbecue areas, the outdoors would be our realm and we'd surf the surging Pacific every day."

I'm going to keep thinking about this one and I will make a post to my other Australian readers for their help.

Hi Sharon, hmm interesting. I was running a workshop yesterday so missed the live braodcast. I will take a listen today to the MP3.

If you like podcasts, BBC Radio 4's "In Business" program has a nice 28m interview with Gerard Fairtlough on the legacy of hierarchical control and the command and control mindsets. Not much new if you've read this stuff before (organic complexity, self organising behaviour etc.), but it's a nice opportunity to hear, in one place, Dee Hock, Ricardo Semler, Peter Senge, Marvin Bower and Peter Drucker on leadership - apparently it's only up for seven days though (six and counting :)